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Gethins Wing Anatomy WIP by GreekCeltic Gethins Wing Anatomy WIP by GreekCeltic
Edit: Took the advice given and went with the muscle under the arm. I remove the muscle that laid over the shoulder. The simple solution almost always seems to be the best. :P

Rather than creating one muscle I tried two. The lighter area is thicker, the darker area is thinner. Because I don't want the darker area (directly under the pectorals) to suffocate the muscles that raise the rib cage. That would probably be bad for someone trying to fly, haha, or doing anything physically intense.

I didn't cover the abdominal muscles or partially cover them. I tried it and it just looked weird. XD

Any additional feedback?


-------------old WIP message -----

This is a WIP sketch that's a long ways from finished, but I wanted to post it primarily to get feedback. XD I know I have watchers that know a lot more about anatomy than I do.

Yeeees I know that a human's chest would have to be massive to realistically fly, there's also the fact that Gethin is way too heavy to probably even glide, XD but this is fantasy. I'm only going for a certain amount of realistic.

Any input on the arrangement of muscles?

I've added extra bones to the wing in the hope of getting around the shoulder being in the way (and also to make his wings a little more flexible, for other purposes).
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:iconjeantinehobbit:
JeantineHobbit Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2015  Hobbyist Writer
Thanks for this anatomy. I'm actually doing something similar with my four-armed "wingless" Tolkien Balrogs! It's nice to get tips on how to make the anatomy of a fantasy creature believable! :)
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:iconstubble-hub:
Stubble-Hub Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2014
Minus the colored muscle variants, whats the difference between the newest and oldest? JK JK. Nice anatomy, would you mind if I used it?
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:icondarkareodu:
DarkAreodu Featured By Owner Jul 11, 2011
I know nothing about anatomy whatsoever, but your newer version look a hell of a lot more comfortable for moving about.
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:iconbeastofoblivion:
beastofoblivion Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2011  Professional Artist
Hahaha it was fun watching you work on this!
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:iconspacerogue:
spacerogue Featured By Owner Jun 19, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
even with my personal obsession with anatomy I'v never looked far into that of a bird.

This is by all means awesome, I wish more people would do this instead of just pasting a pair of wings on a human. IknowIknow its all fantasy but the diversity of ideas and solution to a problem would be awesome to see :)
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:icongaia1390:
Gaia1390 Featured By Owner Jun 19, 2011
This is good but i always felt that wing muscles would connect on the sternum- inn the middle of the chest providing more stregth to each wing thrust
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:iconoboroten:
oboroten Featured By Owner Jun 19, 2011
In that case, wouldn't the sternum need to extend upward at a right angle to the chest?
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:icongaia1390:
Gaia1390 Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2011
not necessarily it would however need to be a lot stronger and perhaps bigger but if its just an anchoring bone and the wing muscles, although linked, flexed separatley I see no reason why it can't work.

but then I don't know a great deal about anatomy despite staring at the anatomy diagram in my bio class rather than listening.

If you can see where my reasonings gone worng that would be cool
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:iconoboroten:
oboroten Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2011
I found a diagram showing how carinate ("keel-shaped") birds have two pairs of muscles coupled to the sternum to enable flight. See
[link]

While humans have something analogous to the first pair,
[link]
the "supracoracoideus" muscle in birds is aligned differently than
[link]
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:icongaia1390:
Gaia1390 Featured By Owner Jun 21, 2011
ahhh, now I see. thanks.
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:icon0armoredsoul0:
0ArmoredSoul0 Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
HUMAN WINGS THAT MAKE SENSE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH!!! :D
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:iconplunder:
Plunder Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011
How do his wing-shoulder-blade and his primary/"arm-arm?" shoulder-blade interact? Assuming they don't share one, which would be kinda awkward and full of useless-arm-arm flapping along the wing action. O: Just something to think about, 'cause with one shoulder-blade Gethy's arms would be mimicking the motion of his wing-arms... Or being dislocated.

Props on the top one's muscle looking conceptually like it would support his spine and core mid-flight, you see a ton of really-top-heavy looking wingpeople that just can't convince me that they wouldn't overbalance in flight with their clumsily-distributed muscles.

The only way I've ever gotten 6-limbs to work was with a joke character, a flamingo/jagarundi gryff... His torso was mostly dominated by his wing-arms, and he had these tiny little t-rex arms with floating shoulder-blades that were minimally muscled to interfere with his flying as little as possible. They were really only good for making him look posh when he wore a top hat and held a cane. )'8
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:iconsagekorppi:
SageKorppi Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
Looking good and happy to give any input as necessary! Have my hands inside birds on a weekly basis, so very familiar with flight anatomy :)
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:icongreekceltic:
GreekCeltic Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011
I'll forever see you with bird puppets now. XD
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:iconsagekorppi:
SageKorppi Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
...there are such pictures >.> (Cormorants make excellent hand puppets.)

We get a little silly in the bird prep lab. When you work with so much death you have to have a sense of humor ;)
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:icongreekceltic:
GreekCeltic Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011
Rooofl XD

Well any input you have, I'd be happy to hear it! I'm counting feathers right now. I haven't found one reference that numbers anything but the first and secondary primaries.

THE OTHER FEATHERS MATTER TOO GOOGLE.

GAWD.
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:iconsagekorppi:
SageKorppi Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
The primaries and secondaries are really all most ornithologists pay attention to XD (Usually 10 and 10ish.)

I can scan the feather diagrams in my Manual of Ornithology if you want!
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:icongreekceltic:
GreekCeltic Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011
Oooh I bet I'd use it. XD Maybe not right away, but eventually! (Oh god I've been looking at feathers all day, I'm about to take a torch to them, rofl).
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:iconsagekorppi:
SageKorppi Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
Hahaha, I hear ya! Burning feathers doesn't smell too good though!

I scanned a bunch of pages out of the manual that I thought you may find relevant. I'll note them to you :)

Just remember when getting in to nitty-gritty details with this character that birds adapted to flight one way, bats another, pterosaurs another, and insects another. Also remember the configuration of a human with wings truly flying is difficult to work out. (I have some fun suggestions, but still, love seeing fantasy stuff that seems plausible and makes me feel like it could work, but hate to see great ideas go wonky in the name of making something that MUST WORK.)
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:iconnagirrehk:
nagirrehk Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I'm unfortunately not in much of a position to give proper anatomy advice, but remember to think about things other than just wing muscles that birds have to help them fly aswell, such as hollow/ lightweight bones, etc! Always something to mention c:
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:iconkizziah:
kizziah Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011  Student Digital Artist
I agree with :iconhumingbird:-- pulling the pectoral muscles down the front part of Gethin's body. It would promote better flying. Having such large wings will require bigger muscles around the front of the body. As the wings are "pulley'd" back up, the strong pectoral/frontal body muscles will allow a strong down-stroke.
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:iconoboroten:
oboroten Featured By Owner Jun 19, 2011
Wouldn't that require a large keel bone? See
[link](bird_anatomy)
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:iconkizziah:
kizziah Featured By Owner Jun 19, 2011  Student Digital Artist
Yes, it would. :clap:
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:iconkizziah:
kizziah Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011  Student Digital Artist
P.S. This is brilliant! Gethin is an amazing creature!
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:iconarvalis:
arvalis Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011
It looks strange has a second set of pectorals overlay the clavicle. Theres like no animal where the clavicle isnt a subcutaneous bone form. The wrap around under the arm works much better, i would push that area more and remover the over-clavicular muscle form. You could widen his wing's shoulders more to give more breathing room for his second set of pectorals.
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:icongreekceltic:
GreekCeltic Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011
That sounds applicable, XD I was just working on extending the under-arm muscle a little further down his torso.

Gonna see how it looks if I take that overlay off.
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:iconrasa88:
Rasa88 Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Why not go for a more unusual shape? Try extending the breast/pectoral muscles down the front og his entire body? It not only looks more interesting but a little more believeable c:
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:icongreekceltic:
GreekCeltic Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011
Hahaha I was thinking about that just before I found your comment, XD I've thought about it several times but I figured I'd try this way first, then tweak as need be.

Gonna give that whirl now.
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:iconrasa88:
Rasa88 Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I's love to see it!

I mean I understand your not going into the details of flight anatomy (I've tried that before and I simply ended up with a bird...oops!) but it may help somewhat c:
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:icongreekceltic:
GreekCeltic Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011
XD Yeeees. It's hard not to just monster-it-up and make something less human.

Check your notes! I'm working on it now but the location is a seekrit.
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:iconrasa88:
Rasa88 Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I think the DA note system has problems, if you've been sending I havent been reciving c:>
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:icongreekceltic:
GreekCeltic Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011
Whoops! XD I sent it again, I had sent it to the wrong name.
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:iconrasa88:
Rasa88 Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Oh I know, at least monsters are fun though right? We do like our monsters!

Ooooh!
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:iconnera-aljon:
Nera-Aljon Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011  Professional Digital Artist
I wish I knew more about bird anatomy to help you out with this. 3: But man, kudos to you for trying to think of a reasonable chart for the structure of it! This is one of those things that I just usually leave in the category of "I know it doesn't make sense but stay with me" kind of deals. XD; I'm sure :iconhumingbird: would be a great artist to ask! She's the first person I thought of. c: She is very good at doing this kind of thing. <3
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:iconrasa88:
Rasa88 Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thankyou very much for the mention c:>
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:iconnera-aljon:
Nera-Aljon Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2011  Professional Digital Artist
Awww no probs! <3 I always admire your anatomy work, even if I don't comment on them (because I have no clue how these things work haha)
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